CHATTING WITH SUSAN CHAST: A MARGE PIERCY WORKSHOP

My friends, we have something very special for you today. Recently, our staff member Susan Chast was fortunate to attend a one week poetry workshop with none other than Marge Piercy. I asked Susan if she would share the experience with us, so we could share in it vicariously. Make yourselves a cup of tea and settle in. This is going to be a very interesting read. 

Sherry: Susan, you are so lucky to have attended a workshop with the noted author Marge Piercy recently. I read Marge in the 70’s.  She was one of the women writers I turned to, seeking a map out of disillusionment and into strength and joy. I am looking forward to hearing about this workshop in detail. Will you walk us through your arrival?

Marge Piercy, 1974.

(Waring Abbot / Michael Ochs Archives / Getty Images)

Susan: Yes, I was fortunate to be part of the workshop.   I love Marge Piercy and her writing.  I first became acquainted with her work in the 1970s.  My first read was Small Changes, a novel about women struggling to be independent, a gift from a friend when I separated from my husband.  It led me to seek out the women’s movement. Woman on the Edge of Time got me reading sci fi as a first love, including her He, She and It.  Her historical fiction is the best I’ve ever read.  Take Vida and City of Darkness, City of Light, for example.  And memoir?  I took two workshops with her on the genre and own both Sleeping with Cats and the how-to So You Want to Write (non-fiction).  I have 6 of her 15 poetry collections, the earliest 1973 and the latest 2015.  One of my favorite poems by her is “To be of Use.”  She’s influenced both my writing and my independent spirit.  Here’s a link to her bio and poems at The Poetry Foundation.

Marge Piercy, 2017, at this summer’s poetry reading

The Wellfleet Public Library, Cape Cod, MA, USA  June 2017

This quote always comes to mind when I think about studying with Marge Piercy:

"Come to the edge," he said.  "We can't, we're afraid!" they responded.
"Come to the edge," he said.  "We can't, We will fall!" they responded.
"Come to the edge," he said.  And so they came.
And he pushed them.   And they flew.

― Guillaume Apollinaire

Sherry: I love that quote, and will enjoy hearing how it applies to this workshop. It must be much like jumping in at the deep end. Smiles. I envy you the memoir workshop especially.  I adored “Sleeping With Cats”. I must read it again.

Susan: I studied memoir writing with Marge at Omega Institute while I was still teaching.  When I retired in 2012 and started writing poetry seriously, I tried to get into her small summer poetry workshop.  It took me 4 years to get in.  Last year I was on the waiting list which gave me time to prepay everything—the week with Marge Piercy, the house I rented with another participant, and my budget for seafood dinners.  I knew that fried clams was the first stop and the ocean shore the second.  I picked up my housemate, Kellyann Conway, on the way, meeting her for the first time at a restaurant enroute.  She had the same priorities.  We arrived two days early with time to eat and walk together as well as to write and meditate in solitude.  The weather was beautiful, and I was ecstatic.  Kellyann is a sound therapist, and she had brought her tuning forks!  She worked a little on my hands and my back.  Lucky me.

Oceanside Wellfleet

Home

View  across Wellfleet Bay,  a great walk around

Sherry: What a gorgeous setting! And what a cute little cottage.  What was the first gathering like?

Susan:  First thing Monday morning, we gathered around a conference table in a room at the senior community center.  After a 4-minute introductory pair-and share, we plunged into the topics of imagery and metaphor.  We read poems aloud that Marge had brought as examples, and went home with an assignment to write an extended metaphor poem.  Here is mine:

Self-Reliance

Crying for hours with no

hope of rescue created

the river I needed

to swim out to sea.

Who knew what blessings

your absence would bring?

Now that I have descended cliffs,

leapt into currents, breasted waves

and tasted the sea, your little
rope swing and your caution
have no more appeal for me.

Sherry: What did the moment feel like right after you read your poem? Did you have butterflies?  

Susan: You know I love reading aloud, so no butterflies--except a little at the poetry reading, as I chose to read 2 poems from my book  that Marge had not seen. My classmates called me a rebel. But on the last day, I gave Marge a signed copy of my book. In a book she signed for me a week later (we did this through the mail), she wrote that she enjoyed my book and I should keep writing.  That made me happy.

Sherry: What a wonderfully validating inscription. How wonderful!

Susan: So yes, on the second day we handed out our homework poem and critiqued them all, handing written comments back to each other. In this first homework assignment I came to admire the other poet participants’ poetry and insights. I incorporated many of their notes and revised.  The middle lines take away the wonder of the narrative voice.  Suggested word changes (italicized) strengthen the poem, I believe, and increase its humor.

Self-Reliance

Crying for hours with no hope of release

created the river I needed

to swim out to sea.

Now that I have ascended cliffs, leapt into currents,

breasted waves and tasted the sea,

your little puddle and your rope swing

no longer appeal to me.

Neat, huh?!  One person suggested I change the title to “absence,” but I left it unchanged.

Sherry: I’m glad you left the title as it was, for that is the essence of the poem. The suggestions do make for a concise, very effective poem. But I loved the first one, too.

Susan: Even if you would have made different choices, I had invaluable practice in seeing more clearly with each aspect of Marge's workshop. And this was the pattern of each of the 5 days.  We met from 9 to noon to read and critique poems, gain insight on the next topic Marge highlighted, and have a homework assignment.  I saved a pile of poetry Marge used to illustrate imagery, sound, line length, provocative titles, poetic patterns and line breaks.  This was the meat in the workshop “sandwich.”  I loved the examples and Marge’s delight in the poems and poets she brought together.  She had known many of the poets, and told us about the backgrounds of several poems.   So the class was both review of what I knew and a challenge to advance to another level of craft in achieving my intended effect. She treated us like the poets we are.  I never felt talked down to. 

Sherry: This is all fascinating. I am attending vicariously, through your description. Tell us more.

Susan:  And then there is "the bread" to the sandwich, the major reason I wanted to attend this week: Marge had read 15 of our poems pre-workshop, and had prepared comments she shared with each of us in individual afternoon sessions.  My conference took place on the first afternoon.  

Sherry: How did you feel? Were you nervous?  What a valuable experience it must have been, a private conference with such a noted writer.

Susan:   More eager than nervous. I admire Marge's poetry, and wanted her critique. I gave her 15 poems I was not quite happy with but couldn't figure out why.  I wasn't trying to "please the teacher."  I’m glad I volunteered to be one of the first, though, because I did get more vulnerable than I expected and it gave me time to ask questions.  Some of her critique was relatively easy--to go for detail and juicy images, to sermonize less--and she showed me where and how.  Brilliant.  For example, in "Small Change," my poem raising questions from the Women's Post-Inauguration March, Marge pointed to 5 lines that could be cut or condensed to make it stronger.  "The poem is all here, but wordy," she said.  She suggested I look at every phrase and ask why I need it and what it does for the poem. Here and in other poems, Marge reminded me of the importance of asking “why.”  She asked why constantly--why this word, this title, this image, this line break.  I had neglected the lesson I used so well in staging drama--why costumes? why a set?  why move?  why anything?  As a stage director, I followed director Peter Brook as he explained it in The Empty Space.  Everything is purposeful in art. Even if we discover it by accident, the decision to keep, alter or discard it is purposeful.  

Sherry: I love that question “why?” That is a very useful tip.

Susan:  Yes.  But some of the critique was harder because it involved how I articulate my faith experience. 

The gazebo where Marge held our individual meetings.

Much of my poetry depends on inner life that I don’t always clarify for the reader, especially concepts connected with Quaker ministry and testimonies that are obscure to most people.  For example:

Step Three: Rest

A friend reminds us, as always, that we

know how to ease the load, to smooth the road.

We can decide to trust a greater Truth.

I can’t retain this in my head without

an act of will.  Remember this address,

my Mom would say.   It’s where we live.  It’s home.

And I rehearsed and I hung an ID

on my lanyard.  Like this landscape, like this

rock we can see and hold, God’s reminders.

Mercy, my friends, is there if we want it.

Mercy and gratitude to give and take

Rehearse it.  Carry prayers in pockets.

Sherry: How I love “Carry prayers in pockets”!

Susan:  Me, too. And the poem is part of a series that links the AA's 12 Steps with Quaker ways of thinking.  Step 3 is  

"Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over  to the care of God as we understood Him."

 But I didn't include that, not even as an epigraph under the title. I had capitalized truth as a stand-in for God and as an illusion to the Biblical passage from which Quakers take our name: to be Friends of Truth.  I could make this clearer and illustrate it with a clearer parable than the name tag. Without some knowledge, the capitalization seems Victorian and the concept obscure. "Mercy" is also an obscure concept in this context.   Marge wanted me to make her care more about the content without resorting to sermonizing, and I see her point.  Now I will have to choose for each of this type of poem how much to alter. And I want to be certain that the poems do what I want them to do. Those that are closest to recording a Still Small Voice, I may not alter at all even if they require a Specialized Audience.  Others I intend to revise with more images and less emoting.  What I mean—and something I definitely experienced most emphatically in Marge’s workshop--is that I want to arouse the emotion in my reader—not convince them that I myself have been moved.  

Sherry: Ah, that is a very key distinction, and a good piece of wisdom to take away and share with us. Worth the price of admission, I dare say. Did you come away with any other realizations?

Susan: I hadn’t realized until this workshop how much I rely on concepts, skimming the top of my experience. And I often sermonize to readers who are already among the converted, especially in political poems.  (I'd give you another example, but this is already too long.) Also, LOL, I never even made choices about capital letters! I asked you to capitalize "still small voice" and "specialized audience" above--and truly, it does make them appear old fashioned, doesn't it?  And for what purpose?  Why?  For some readers that certainly could be off putting, whereas details and images and metaphor root the best pieces.   I was able to discuss this with Marge in depth during our conference.  

And I will revise "Step Three: Rest." I want to make a clear distinction between the past and the present in my line breaks, and I want to point up the parallel between rehearsing the address and rehearsing turning to God.  That prayer in the pocket, then, could be nothing else but the reminder to turn to God.

Sherry: Wow, you really did get to the meat and potatoes of it, Susan. You came away with so much. 

Susan: Marge found parts of almost every poem that worked, and she found 2 of my 15 to be “complete”--I love her use of that word.  Her comments on the following poem are “This poem completely works. Excellent.  Character created, rich with specifics. A fine piece of work.”

Sherry: I would say that about all of your poems. Let’s take a look!

In the Voting Booth

Harried and hot, she finally entered

the voting booth and quickly pressed levers

for her choices.  She paused before the last

lever that entered her free vote.  How long

she had waited to arrive!  Not just lines

today, but photo ID and proof of

residence, citizenship test and Eng-

lish classes after years of exile and

insecurity.  She placed one tired hand

on the cold machine’s grey edge and she sighed,

inhaled and sighed again, a moment’s peace

and pride energizing her to move when

a voice penetrated her private space,

“Any problems, Ma’am?” spoken kindly

but urgently outside the closed curtains.

“No,” she replied.  She pushed the last lever

registering her vote and opening

the curtains simultaneously.  She

noticed the levers now in their upright

positions, turned tall and made her exit.

Sherry: It is interesting to read this poem, knowing what Marge Piercy said about it. I do get a complete sense of the person, the setting, her feelings, and especially her weariness. Wonderful, Susan!

Susan:  Thank you.  So there you have it: The meat and the bread to put it on, along with all the seasonings!   By the end of the week, I no longer felt vulnerable, but energetic, courageous and grateful.  

Sherry, answering your questions has also helped.  I’ve written fewer poems in the last few weeks, but I like what I’ve written.

Sherry: I'm glad. I especially like your feeling "courageous" as the workshop progressed. I’m glad you are integrating what you learned, and are kind enough to share it with us. It sounds like a transformative and highly motivating  experience, and one that will give you solid ground on which to build your poems in months and years to come.

Susan: On top of all this, Marge urged us to explore the Cape, she insisted it was part of the workshop.  She planned three early evenings: a beach bonfire Wednesday, a public library poetry reading Thursday, and a dinner party at the home to end the week. Yum.

Marge and her husband Woody (Ira Wood) farm their land—that’s how big their garden seems.  I think they delight in community gatherings. The reading was crowded with friends and so was the party. Friendly personable smiles, great conversation.  And the class of 12 she pulled together made the time very special indeed.   

Our Bonfire (Photo by S.E. Venart)

Sherry: What a spectacular setting! It would add much to the workshop, for sure. I love the gazebo, where you met with Marge. I could sit there by the hour. What a heavenly setting! Marge has created a charmed world for herself (and wrote a lot of books to have it!) How lovely that she welcomes other writers to enjoy it. 

Susan: It's amazing. And you can imagine how hard it is to really be a working poet. Her books wouldn't possibly support her without constant talks, readings, editing, publishing others and staying productive.  She bought her land before Wellfleet was upscale and groomed, and she has become an essential member of her community there.

Sherry: She created a wonderful life. As the workshop continued, did you find yourself looking at your work differently? Did your process change?

Susan:  Yes and yes.  I have new eyes for some of it and remain true to the urgency I experienced for some of it.  I’m reading through it all again--I wrote over 1500 poems in 5+ years--and finding much I like as well as much to improve.  I'm ready to put another book together.  

Remember when I left I said that I would agree to an interview if I still felt I was a poet when I returned.  Well, I do.  I gained confidence this summer.  The workshop was worth it--the money, the risk, the time.  Marge Piercy delivered.

Sherry: Indeed, she did. It is always good to stretch ourselves and grow as poets. Bravo for meeting the challenge.  I knew, since you were such a fine poet going into the workshop, that you would emerge just as fine. So I was certain we would be having this chat.

Susan:  You were certain?  I wasn't!  But I'm grateful to be here and hope I haven't been boring.

Sherry: Boring? You? Impossible!  Thank you for allowing us to enjoy your adventure vicariously, through your experiences and photos. You went to the edge, Marge pushed you, and you flew! Bravo! 

For any of you who might be fortunate enough to attend one of the workshops, application directions are on her website at https://margepiercy.com/

SUBMISSIONS for the JUNE 2018 INTENSIVE POETRY WORKSHOP on CAPE COD WILL BE ACCEPTED BEGINNING DEC 1, 2017.

Well, my friends? I told you this would be interesting! We do hope you enjoyed it. Do come back and see who we talk to next. Who knows? It might be you!